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Protests And Court Orders Push Back Against Trump’s Muslim Ban

Airport Protests

After being in effect for less than twenty-four hours, Donald Trump’s Executive Order barring immigration from certain majority Muslim nations has become the subject of nationwide protests and has at least in part blocked by four different Federal Court Judges:

WASHINGTON — A federal judge in Brooklyn came to the aid of scores of refugees and others who were trapped at airports across the United States on Saturday after an executive order signed by President Trump, which sought to keep many foreigners from entering the country, led to chaotic scenes across the globe.

The judge’s ruling blocked part of the president’s actions, preventing the government from deporting some arrivals who found themselves ensnared by the presidential order. But it stopped short of letting them into the country or issuing a broader ruling on the constitutionality of Mr. Trump’s actions.

The high-stakes legal case played out on Saturday amid global turmoil, as the executive order signed by the president slammed shut the borders of the United States for an Iranian scientist headed to a lab in Massachusetts, a Syrian refugee family headed to a new life in Ohio and countless others across the world.

The president’s order, enacted with the stroke of a pen at 4:42 p.m. Friday, suspended entry of all refugees to the United States for 120 days, barred Syrian refugees indefinitely, and blocked entry into the United States for 90 days for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

The Department of Homeland Security said that the order also barred green card holders from those countries from re-entering the United States. In a briefing for reporters, White House officials said that green card holders from the seven affected countries who are outside the United States would need a case-by-case waiver to return.

Mr. Trump — in office just a week — found himself accused of constitutional and legal overreach by two Iraqi immigrants, defended by the American Civil Liberties Union. Meanwhile, large crowds of protesters turned out at airports around the country to denounce Mr. Trump’s ban on the entry of refugees and people from seven predominantly Muslim countries.

Lawyers who sued the government to block the White House order said the judge’s decision could affect an estimated 100 to 200 people who were detained upon arrival at American airports.

Judge Ann M. Donnelly of Federal District Court in Brooklyn, who was nominated by former President Barack Obama, ruled just before 9 p.m. that implementing Mr. Trump’s order by sending the travelers home could cause them “irreparable harm.” She said the government was “enjoined and restrained from, in any manner and by any means, removing individuals” who had arrived in the United States with valid visas or refugee status.

The ruling does not appear to force the administration to let in people otherwise blocked by Mr. Trump’s order who have not yet traveled to the United States.

The judge’s one-page ruling came swiftly after lawyers for the A.C.L.U. testified in her courtroom that one of the people detained at an airport was being put on a plane to be deported back to Syria at that very moment. A government lawyer, Gisela A. Westwater, who spoke to the court by phone from Washington, said she simply did not know.

Hundreds of people waited outside of the courthouse chanting, “Set them free!” as lawyers made their case. When the crowd learned that Judge Donnelly had ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, a rousing cheer went up in the crowd.

Minutes after the judge’s ruling in New York City, another judge, Leonie M. Brinkema of Federal District Court in Virginia, issued a temporary restraining order for a week to block the removal of any green card holders being detained at Dulles International Airport.

In a statement released early Sunday morning, the Department of Homeland Security said it would continue to enforce all of the president’s executive orders, even while complying with judicial decisions. “Prohibited travel will remain prohibited,” the department said in a statement, adding that the directive was “a first step towards re-establishing control over America’s borders and national security.”

Around the nation, security personnel at major international airports had new rules to follow, though the application of the order appeared chaotic and uneven. Humanitarian organizations delivered the bad news to overseas families that had overcome the bureaucratic hurdles previously in place and were set to travel. And refugees already on flights when the order was signed on Friday found themselves detained upon arrival.

“We’ve gotten reports of people being detained all over the country,” said Becca Heller, the director of the International Refugee Assistance Project. “They’re literally pouring in by the minute.”

Earlier in the day, at the White House, Mr. Trump shrugged off the sense of anxiety and disarray, suggesting that there had been an orderly rollout. “It’s not a Muslim ban, but we were totally prepared,” he said. “It’s working out very nicely. You see it at the airports, you see it all over.”

But to many, the government hardly seemed prepared for the upheaval that Mr. Trump’s actions put into motion.

There were numerous reports of students attending American universities who were blocked from returning to the United States from visits abroad. One student said in a Twitter post that he would be unable to study at Yale. Another who attends the Massachusetts Institute of Technology was refused permission to board a plane. A Sudanese graduate student at Stanford University was blocked for hours from entering the country.

Human rights groups reported that legal permanent residents of the United States who hold green cards were being stopped in foreign airports as they sought to return from funerals, vacations or study abroad. There was widespread condemnation of the order, from religious leaders, business executives, academics, political leaders and others. Mr. Trump’s supporters offered praise, calling it a necessary step on behalf of the nation’s security.

Homeland Security officials said on Saturday night that 109 people who were already in transit to the United States when the order was signed were denied access; 173 were stopped before boarding planes heading to America. Eighty-one people who were stopped were eventually given waivers to enter the United States, officials said.

Legal residents who have a green card and are currently in the United States should meet with a consular officer before leaving the country, a White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told reporters. Officials did not clarify the criteria that would qualify someone for a waiver, other than that it would be granted “in the national interest.”

But the week-old administration appeared to be implementing the order chaotically, with agencies and officials around the globe interpreting it in different ways.

As yesterday went on, reports began to filter out about more and more people being detained at American or foreign airports pursuant to the Executive  Order, including not only people in the country on student, tourist, or temporary work visas, but also people from the targeted nations who are Permanent Residents and even people who have dual citizenship who are attempting to either return to the United States or to leave, even if they are leaving on trips to someplace other than one of the countries covered by the ban. As word continued to spread about such people being held for extended periods of time at airports around the country, crowds gathered at places such as John F. Kennedy Airport in New York and Dulles Airport outside Washington, D.C. that included lawyers who quickly went to work drafting Habeus Corpus petitions for people being detained. As a result, but the end of the night we ended up with Orders putting holds of various kinds on the Executive Order from four separate Federal Judges, including not just the Orders from New York City and Virginia but also from Judges in Massachusetts and Washington state. Given the fact that reports continue to persist this morning of individuals being detained in other states notwithstanding the four existing orders, it’s likely that we’ll hear from more Federal Judges, as well as politicians on Capitol Hill once Congress reconvenes on Monday.

At the very least, it’s clear that the Trump Administration did not think these Executive Orders before getting them signed on Friday afternoon at what seemed like an odd hour of the day for what they should have been touting as a high-profile moment to cap off the first week in office. In interviews today as well as reporting that developed overnight, though, it was revealed that the order was rushed out the door in what appears to be an odd amount of haste. For example, it was drafted entirely without input from either the Department of Justice or the Department of Homeland Security, the two agencies that would be charged with implementing it. Officials at DHS apparently were not even aware that the order was in the pipeline until shortly before it was signed and when officials there initially interpreted it the order to not be applicable to Resident Aliens (a.k.a. Green Card Holders) they were told by Trump’s inner circle, principally led by Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller that in fact it did apply to such individuals. This morning, White House Chief of Staff Reince Preibus was claiming that the order doesn’t apply to such people, and seemingly ignored the fact that permanent resident aliens traveling to or from the affected countries were being impacted by the order in that they were being detained or being prevented from boarding flights to return to the United States.

There really isn’t much that can be said about what’s happening this weekend that I haven’t already said on social media over the past thirty-six hours. What we have here on the part of the Trump Administration is nothing short of an apparently illegal Executive Order that is unconstitutionally and unfairly targeting innocent people while at the same time ignoring the fact that nations left off the list from which immigration is banned have been the ones that have been the primary source of terrorism against American citizens over the past sixteen years. It’s also deeply concerning that this Order was drafted essentially in secret and without any consultation with lawyers or the experts in government charged with implementing these policies. Given these circumstances, it’s hard to see how, in the end, the order is not motivated by the same blatant bigotry and xenophobia that was behind Trump’s initial proposal for a far broader ban against immigration from Muslim countries. It also makes it clear that, given the order itself and the circumstances under which it was drafted, Trump will feel free to expand the scope and nature of his targeting of Muslims if he’s permitted to get away with this without consequences. This is why the protesters and the attorneys who have stood up against it in such short order, principally including the American Civil Liberties Union, deserve credit for what they have done and why more people need to speak out against this.

Here are the four Court Orders issued last night:

Federal Court Orders on Trump E.O.'s by Doug Mataconis on Scribd

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. CSK says:

    Come on, Doug. Trump holds licensing and development deals in Saudi Arabia, The United Arab Emirates, and Egypt. Surely you wouldn’t expect him to inconvenience them.

    I’m asking seriously: If Steve Bannon can rewrite an executive order to suit his own ends, doesn’t that mean he’s the de facto president of the United States?

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  2. michael reynolds says:

    Again: why is Lebanon exempted?

    Lebanon is a state largely run by Hezbollah, a terrorist organization we have condemned again and again. Why?

    The obvious answer is that Trump was obeying his master’s voice. Putin cannot have Hezbollah inconvenienced.

    1) It is a Muslim ban, but its purpose is to feed the bigotry of the Trump/KKK base, and has nothing to do with terrorism.
    2) While avoiding inconveniencing the real problem: Saudi Arabia.
    3) And exempting any country where Trump has money invested, and,
    4) Any country allied to Putin.

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  3. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Michael. Please. Lebanon may be run by Hezbollah, but La Residence in Beirut is Trump.

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  4. Slugger says:

    Stopping terrorist attacks may require some profiling to prevent attacks before they happen. Naturally this may inconvenience some who have no bad intentions, but that is the price of safety. I hope that we identify the nationality/ethnicity/religion of Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh, and Dylann Roof in order to get their kind out of our country.

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  5. michael reynolds says:

    @CSK:
    Hah! I did not know about the Lebanon deal.

    So, is it your belief that Trump is:

    a) Utterly corrupt.
    b) A tool of Vladmir Putin.
    c) Both.

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  6. Gromitt Gunn says:

    As a followup to something bill or Jack430 or Guarneri was trying to downplay the other day:

    The White House admits it intentionally omitted a specific mention of the Jewish people from its Holocaust Remembrance Day official statement.

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  7. CSK says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Well, if you insist:

    1. Utterly corrupt
    2. Putin’s tool
    3. Borderline psychotic
    4. A case of arrested development
    5. A case of ADD
    6. Easily manipulated
    7. Totally lacking in impulse control
    8. Shockingly ignorant
    9. Controlled by delusions of grandeur
    10. A malignant narcissist

    I think that covers it. I won’t go into his unhealthy attraction to his eldest daughter.

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  8. James Pearce says:

    Two observations about this stuff:

    A) It underscores just how much awareness –subconscious as it may be– that in the 21st Century, our nation’s airports are our borders, that any changes to “border security” will primarily be felt there. This does have implications for the Mexican wall, whether Trump supporters want to acknowledge that or not.

    B) A long-running debate I’ve had with myself and others over the efficacy of protest. There will be, I think, a temptation to give the protesters much of the credit. And yet, while the protesters had their spectacle, it’s the non-sexy lawyers and the boring paperwork that is a bigger threat to Trump’s overreach.

    Lawsuits over protests.

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  9. SKI says:

    it’s clear that the Trump Administration did not think these Executive Orders before getting them signed on Friday afternoon at what seemed like an odd hour of the day for what they should have been touting as a high-profile moment to cap off the first week in office

    Bullshit. These are features, not bugs for Trump/Bannon. They are deliberately creating a crisis.
    The question is whether they are merely doing it to create political positivity with “their” voters or they are really trying out the 1920’s playbook from Germany…

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  10. CSK says:

    @SKI:

    Insofar as Trump is concerned, I think he has only the barest apprehension of what consequences his words and actions may bring as long as he feels they enhance his luster. Insofar as Bannon is concerned, he appears to think he’s Cardinal Richelieu. Remember the 30 Years’ War?

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  11. Pch101 says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Again: why is Lebanon exempted?

    To be fair, the list of “countries of concern” was prepared by DHS before Trump entered office and was already incorporated into immigration law.

    Still, this is just lobbing meat to his idiot base that doesn’t understand (or want to understand) that the US already has an extensive vetting process for refugees. Muslims are to Trump what Jews were to the Nazis.

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  12. David M says:

    @James Pearce:

    There’s no reason to think Trump won’t eventually hire competent lawyers to implement his odious plans.

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  13. CSK says:

    Kellyanne Conway, on Fox News Sunday, has demanded to know why all those pundits and reporters and commentators who spoke ill of Trump, no matter their political persuasion, haven’t been fired.

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  14. James Pearce says:

    @David M:

    There’s no reason to think Trump won’t eventually hire competent lawyers to implement his odious plans.

    All the more reason to have lawyers in our quiver, too. Judges are persuaded by legal arguments made at the bench, not by the protests of demonstrators out on the town square.

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  15. Mikey says:

    @James Pearce:

    There will be, I think, a temptation to give the protesters much of the credit. And yet, while the protesters had their spectacle, it’s the non-sexy lawyers and the boring paperwork that is a bigger threat to Trump’s overreach.

    The protests are necessary and important. They make a statement: “this is not acceptable and not supported by the majority.”

    The lawyers are necessary and important because they turn that statement into action, and if there’s one thing that’s utterly vital right now, it’s action. Words are important but they don’t move the ball forward.

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  16. Pch101 says:

    @James Pearce:

    You are definitely not going to get that marketing job.

    Why anyone bothered with lunch counter sit-ins, I don’t know. Those would have been useless protests, right?

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  17. michael reynolds says:

    @James Pearce:
    It’s not either, or. I support the protests and the lawsuits.

    I went back and forth as you hint that you’re doing, but my axis was between ‘total rejection’ and ‘get what we can.’ Total rejection. Refuse to accept Trump as anything but an interloper.

    The reason the protests matter is that Trump does not read, he watches TV. He watches TV obsessively. Like the toddler he is. So he’s witnessing these protests. It’s infuriating him. He’s beside himself with barely-contained rage. The crazier he gets the more apparent it is. Ten days in and he’s already drunk Nixon wandering the halls of the White House talking to portraits.

    I think the way out is not impeachment per se, but Article 25, Section 4.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    He’s mentally unfit. He’s nuts.

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  18. bill says:

    so is this a huge deal compared to what obama did with iraqi’s in 2011? i don’t recall the usual losers “protesting” that- nor any outcry from the bent msm.
    and to make sense of the 7 countries involved- they were “chosen” by the obama regime, he just never acted on it.
    last i heard less than 150 travelers were “vetted” out of 300+k. not very much either way you look at it, if you actually choose to.

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  19. Gustopher says:

    @michael reynolds: Agreed, up to a point — I don’t think we get rid of him. I’d like to, but I don’t think he’s going to go willingly, and he surrounds himself with people who are either yes men, or who act like yes men (while shaping what he says yes to)

    But, an embattled, unpopular, scandal-ridden president can do less damage than one with a passive electorate. So pounding at him makes a difference.

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  20. EddieInCA says:

    @James Pearce:

    B) A long-running debate I’ve had with myself and others over the efficacy of protest. There will be, I think, a temptation to give the protesters much of the credit. And yet, while the protesters had their spectacle, it’s the non-sexy lawyers and the boring paperwork that is a bigger threat to Trump’s overreach.

    1. Rosa Parks should have just sat her ass in the back of the bus, and the people of Montgomery shouldn’t have boycotted the Bus system.

    2. Those damn colonials shouldn’t have tossed tea into the harbor eons ago.

    3. Those damn f**gots should have just kept their mouths shut instead of having all the protests after the Stonewall Inn crackdown.

    4. That stupid MLK should have just hired a bunch of lawyers to fight the oppression and racism of the Jim Crow south.

    5. That silly Cesar Chavez should have never had the Farmworkers Protest. Instead, a few Harvard JDs would have gotten them better working conditions and wages.

    6. Those dorky people wearing Tea Bags on thier heads in 2009 should have just hired a few lawyers instead of protesting.

    7. I can keep going, but I think I, and others, have illustrated how weak your position is/was.

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  21. dxq says:

    show me a step forward in minority rights in this country that wasn’t preceded by marches. And show me one where the dominant group didn’t complain that the minority was misbehaving.

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  22. dxq says:

    show me a step forward in minority rights in this country that wasn’t preceded by marches. And show me one where the dominant group didn’t complain that the minority was misbehaving.

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  23. dxq says:

    The President’s immigration ban could affect NBA players’ ability to travel for games.

    if they don’t get trump out of there soon, the GOP brand will be in shambles.

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  24. Mikey says:

    @bill:

    last i heard less than 150 travelers were “vetted” out of 300+k. not very much either way you look at it, if you actually choose to.

    How many does it have to be before it’s wrong?

    Even a relatively small number matters, because it shows how quickly some Americans will shit all over vital, founding principles, abandoning them in favor of bigotry and political expediency.

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  25. Gustopher says:

    @James Pearce: Here’s what I can say about the effectiveness of these protests — after the elections, most of my friends had a major sad, and moped around defeated. Those who went to the pink pussy hat protests came back energized, those who didn’t go wish they had.

    I have friends who never did more than vote who have now called their congress critters for the first time ever. They are getting involved. Even the ones who didn’t go, but only saw it on TV and in the papers (well, on the web… no one gets papers on paper anymore)

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  26. Pch101 says:

    @Gustopher:

    Protests motivate opponents of the regime to find each other, feel inspired and take other action. Protests allow them to see that they are not alone and that their cause is righteous, a battle worth fighting.

    Pearce has convinced himself that protest is useless unless it converts ones opponents. That’s simply an absurd position. Protests can be used to make an opponent less effective by distracting them and challenging their legitimacy, but there is no reason to care whether their minds are changed.

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  27. Sleeping Dog says:

    The optics from the Trump base is that the Muslim ban is just what is needed and the fact that big business and the brand name Washington politicians, any Democrat, McCain, Graham, Collins etc are screaming is all to the better. So this is a big win for Trump. What is disconcerting is that the Border Patrol/INS is ignoring the Federal Court orders staying enforcement of this Executive Order. It didn’t take long for the Constitutional crisis to begin.

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  28. James Pearce says:

    @Mikey:

    The protests are necessary and important.

    I wouldn’t use either word to describe the protests. We have a “representative democracy” that has no other function other than to serve its constituents. This is understood on the right in its bones. If their constituents want a Muslim ban and a Mexican wall, well, by god, better give it to em. They want it and if they don’t get it, there will be hell to pay.

    Hell. To. Pay.

    On the left, we’ll just go mount another protest, the fascination with crowd size only ensuring that sooner or later, one will be sparsely attended, giving reason for everyone to laugh at us, because after all, it’s not about accomplishing a damn thing, but about “sending a statement,” or to, if we want to be military about it, “rally the troops,” who won’t fight, but will stand there with their candles dripping into their cups.

    I’m probably being a little unkind, but definitely put me down as saying the protests, while inspirational, are unnecessary and not important. What’s necessary and important is, as it always was, political power. Hasn’t Trump proved that with his first ten days in the White House?

    @michael reynolds:

    The reason the protests matter is that Trump does not read, he watches TV.

    I take your point, and would consider Trump’s hurt feelings a bonus of the protests, were he not the ultimate bully. A bully is likely to take some slight like this and use it to justify even greater bullying.

    We can’t pretend he has feelings to hurt. He’s an alpha, snarling even at other alphas. What we need is a bigger dog.
    @EddieInCA:

    Rosa Parks should have just sat her ass in the back of the bus, and the people of Montgomery shouldn’t have boycotted the Bus system.

    Why should every dimwit with a memeable sign be compared to Rosa Parks? Rosa Parks didn’t just go down to the town square one afternoon and stand around, posing for pictures and listening to speeches. Our era may get our own Rosa Parks, and if we do, it will be because she’s up in her office, working, not down in the crowd at the protest.

    Go protest. Have fun. I’m a sports fan. I get the appeal of large crowds all united and determined, holding up signs and mugging for the cameras.

    I just think our political strategy should be based on more than that, that it should have more teeth. How this for a start?

    I demand that Chuck Schumer NOT stand with the protesters. I demand he work on legislation.

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  29. Mikey says:

    @James Pearce:

    I’m probably being a little unkind, but definitely put me down as saying the protests, while inspirational, are unnecessary and not important. What’s necessary and important is, as it always was, political power. Hasn’t Trump proved that with his first ten days in the White House?

    I mean, how the hell do you think movements get started? How do people without political power make their voices heard and motivate themselves and others to do the work to gain that power?

    I can tell you I personally know a dozen people the last week’s protests and marches have motivated to become politically active in ways they have never been in their entire lives. Hell, I’m married to one, an immigrant and citizen-by-choice who sees in Trumpism far too many similarities to her own home country’s horrible past.

    We’re only a week into what will likely be a long, tough several years. This is only the beginning. The hard work of organizing and action has only just begun, but it HAS begun, and the marches and protests were the necessary spark.

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  30. James Pearce says:

    @Gustopher:

    They are getting involved.

    I’m really glad to hear this and I’m really hoping that “involved” means doing grunt work for a non-profit or running for some small office, city council, school board, anything.

    @Mikey:

    The hard work of organizing and action has only just begun, but it HAS begun, and the marches and protests were the necessary spark.

    Then don’t let me harsh your buzz. To arms!

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  31. michael reynolds says:

    @James Pearce:

    It’s not about hurt feelings, it’s about weakness. Trump is a self-inflating balloon and he knows it. He’s a con man and con men live in constant fear of an Emperor’s New Clothes moment. He’s afraid of being made to look weak. Look how desperate he is to have the biggest and the bestest of everything. He’s Augustus Gloop all grown up.

    He is desperate for respect because gaining respect is the ultimate con. It’s not enough to submit to Big Brother, you have to love Big Brother. What he wants most is what we have and can withhold. Of course he’ll double-down on bullying. But bullying relies on bluff, it’s just another con job. The more he ratchets up and fails the more his acolytes will fall away. I saw this movie in 1974. Nixon as the toro bravo, bleeding out day by day, getting weaker and weaker, snarling impotently, and finally sniveling his way out the door.

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  32. Jack says:

    Vetting is for Trump nominees. NOT for immigrants from countries that hate us.

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  33. Mikey says:

    @James Pearce:

    I’m really hoping that “involved” means doing grunt work for a non-profit or running for some small office, city council, school board, anything.

    In my and my wife’s case it will be volunteering on the political campaigns of the Democratic candidates for state office (Virginia elects them in off-years, so this November) and in 2018 working to turn a nearby Republican-held “swing” district in favor of the Democrats. (Visit swingleft.org to see how you can help in your area.) And of course donating to the ACLU, which I am sure will be very busy coming up.

    I’ll be a federal employee soon (my new job fortunately falling into the NatSec exemption to Trump’s idiotic hiring freeze) so I can’t run for partisan office myself, but I can certainly do everything not prohibited by the Hatch Act.

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  34. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @James Pearce:

    I’m probably being a little unkind, but definitely put me down as saying the protests, while inspirational, are unnecessary and not important. What’s necessary and important is, as it always was, political power. Hasn’t Trump proved that with his first ten days in the White House?

    You have to take the long view. These protests have two primary effects:

    1) They energize the opposition, and;

    2) They keep Trump off-base and distracted, which just ensures that he will continue to act out based on emotion instead of making prudent choices. Net result – more screw-ups, which sours persuadable voters on his presidency (and, if we’re lucky / they don’t have the good sense to distance themselves from the Titanic before it goes under, the Republican Party itself by association).

    Add those two together, and you have a recipe for seizing, what was the term you used?

    Political power.

    Trump / current Republican Congress = Brownback / Kansas Legislature circa 2011. From a political perspective, Trump is a gift.

    Make use of it.

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  35. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Mikey:

    And of course donating to the ACLU, which I am sure will be very busy coming up.

    Absolutely. The latest estimates that I’ve heard have them raising something like $19.4 million already, in one weekend, with no end in sight. They normally manage 3 to 4 million in any given year, so this is phenomenal.

    Keep Giving :-)

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  36. Lit3Bolt says:

    @James Pearce:

    Protests are important for shifting the media narrative away from assuming “the people” automatically support the government. They energize opposition, provide networking opportunities, encourage solidarity, and provide imagery.

    I get how you can be irritated by people doing it for the most shallow of reasons, but the vast majority are not, and this is NOT like Occupy Wall Street. There’s no agenda-less feel-good hippie-trippy stuff going on at these protests.

    They have a simple goal and a simple message and simple agenda: Stop Trump.

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  37. Grumpy Realist says:

    @Jack: if the criteria is ” don’t let in people from countries who hate us”, why the dead silence about people from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and Russia?

    You know, I’m surprised you haven’t given all your money away to Nigerian spammers yet. You’ll believe ANYTHING.

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  38. KM says:

    On the importance of protesting vs litigation in making a political difference – you really can’t compare the two because they operate in different spheres of influences. It’s the difference between your diagnostician and your nurse. One brings your attention to the problem and one takes care of the resulting issue. One is not inherently better then the other; both are needed for proper healthcare.

    Litigation may be the more effective legal tool in that it works the system and forces change with the system’s own rules. It’s the backbone that supports protesters and give teeth to their chants. The ACLU exists for a reason. But lets be honest, how many of you know all the details about all the lawsuits against Trump? Can you name names, locations, details? We’re the engaged ones and I doubt most people on this thread could provide that info without some googling involved. The average voter doesn’t know and doesn’t care – as stated above, it’s not the sexy work. They may be vaguely aware of lawsuits but consider them to be an elitist thing, not something that’s going to touch or effect their lives personally. The average American’s experience with lawyers is almost never a positive on despite all the good lawyers can do for them.

    On the other hand, protests are loud and in your face reminders that people are unhappy. That your neighbors aren’t going to take this sh^t laying down. They are designed to get attention, create energy and remind people they have a voice. They get under their opponents skin, make possible allies rethink their positions and start dialogues that wouldn’t happen otherwise. Protests get remembered, get airtime and headlines in a way lawsuits rarely do. Protests are Step One and sometimes protesters gets stuck on ???? before they hit Profit! They can seem meaningless or directionless and that’s fine. It means someone needs to step in to direct that energy – cue the unsexy, underappreciated work. Lawsuits don’t come out of nowhere after all – they are usually filed by someone as a protest!

    Tl;dr complaining protests are ineffective misses the point because “effective” doesn’t mean the same thing in this context. It’s never pointless to voice your opinion and rattle some cages, just like legal work to back it up deserve more attention then it gets.

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  39. Jack says:

    @Grumpy Realist: Good thing Justin Trudeau let in all those peaceful Muslims, huh? Here’s your sign.

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  40. Pete S says:

    @Jack: What on earth is the matter with you? A mosque gets shot up and you blame Muslims?!?!?!?! And you call someone else stupid?

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  41. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @Jack:

    Aside from clarifying even further that you’re an insufferable asshole (which, trust me, needed no clarification), you’re off base here.

    The (confessed) shooter is a white French-Canadian native / Canadian citizen named Alexandre Bissonnette. According to his classmates, he holds strident far right views, is pro-Israel, pro-Trump and anti-immigration.

    Sorry – this guy belongs to you. You guys created him. You own this one.

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  42. Tyrell says:

    Exactly how many people at the LaGuardia Airport were sent back ? How many detained ? For what reasons ? Did Trump pick the seven countries ? How many people came into this country over the weekend without incident ?
    I talked to a man who works in the police unit at a large airport nearby. He said they average sending back about 3-5 people a week, and people are detained every day for various reasons.

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  43. CSK says:

    @Pete S: @HarvardLaw92:

    Aw, you lefty globalist guys are so misguided. Don’t you know that the Trumpkins have established beyond question that Bissonnette is being framed to cater to political correctness, and that the Muslim guy wasn’t a witness but the real, actual culprit?

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  44. HarvardLaw92 says:

    @CSK:

    You’re right. I forgot that the Muslim guy used his evil mind-control powers (which all Muslims have, btw …) to force the innocent white guy to murder all those people. He was probably on his way to bible study when it happened.

    /snark

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  45. grumpy realist says:

    @Jack: Um, the alleged shooting suspect is named Alexandre Bissonett and looks pretty damn Caucasian to me. (The second reported suspect–who does have a Middle Eastern name–is now considered to have been a witness to the carnage, not a suspect.)

    Sorry that what happened didn’t accord with your fantasies, but I don’t think you can blame this one on the Evil Immigrant Muslims.

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  46. grumpy realist says:

    P.S. But considering what happened with Sandy Hook Truthers, I have no doubt but that some conspiracy nut will spin out some story about how the entire Canadian police force has just made up the whole story.

    (I’m getting to the point where I think conspiracy nuts should be shot on sight, or at least banned from using the internet.)

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  47. bill says:

    ok, it’s another day and do you all feel like idiots for freaking out about what’s essentially nothing?
    probably not, just checking.
    it was nice when that iraqi guy was released and said he liked trump- right in front of that wacky nys rep who was fuming all day about the “ban”. you could almost see her soul crushing under it’s own weight…priceless !
    i wonder if these “protesters” realized they made life miserable for just about anyone who needed to get somewhere? nah, tat would require some sort of “thought” that just never seems to happen.
    oh well, what will everyone shite the bed about tomorrow?!

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  48. KM says:

    @bill:

    i wonder if these “protesters” realized they made life miserable for just about anyone who needed to get somewhere?

    OMG someone was unfairly prevented from getting where they need to go by a capricious a-hole throwing a temper tantrum? Wow, I wonder how some people traveling over half the day at the airport feel about that…

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  49. Mikey says:

    @Jack: The guy who murdered the praying Muslims is a white Christian and vocal Trump supporter.

    Just like you.

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  50. bill says:

    @Mikey: we shouldn’t single out people based on their race just because they did a bad thing….
    see how stupid it sounds now?!

    For measure, Canadians can’t vote here…..yet.

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