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Dozens Dead, Dozens More Injured, As Truck Rams Bastille Day Crowd In Nice

Nice, France Truck Attack

Up to 60 people, and perhaps more, are reported dead, and at least 100 injured, after a truck rammed into a crowd gathered in Nice, France to celebrate Bastille Day:

PARIS — A truck plowed into a large crowd watching the annual Bastille Day fireworks on the promenade in Nice on Thursday night, and a number of people were feared dead. There was no official confirmation of the number of casualties, but witnesses reported hearing gunshots.

A Twitter message from Christian Estrosi, the deputy mayor of Nice, said that there might have been “tens of deaths” but he did not provide exact numbers or other details. It was not clear what motivated the driver to veer into into the crowd.

Officials asked people to stay indoors.

Conflicting accounts of the deaths and injuries emerged from multiple sources after the episode, with many reporting high numbers of casualties.

The sub-prefect of the Alpes-Maritimes department, Sébastien Humbert, told the French network BFMTV: “There are several dozen dead. The total is very high, thirty dead. Maybe 100 wounded. There was a truck that drove into the crowd, over a very long distance. There were shots. The driver was shot. This is on a big scale.”

Daphne Burandé, 15, who was at a bar near the beach to watch the fireworks, said: “We were enjoying the celebrations when we suddenly saw people running everywhere and tables being pushed down by the movement of panic.”

“No one explained to us what was happening and I heard some gunshots not very far away,” she said. “I waited at the bar for more information because I thought it was a false alert. But then, people were still running.”

France has been on alert for a terrorist attack for months, and officials have warned repeatedly that another attack is likely. Last November, attacks in and around Paris killed 130 people.

On Twitter, a woman who said her terrace overlooked the promenade where the episode unfolded reported hearing gunfire.

Several witnesses spoke on iTele, a French television station. A man who gave his name as Michel, working at the Voilier Plage restaurant in front of the Promenade des Anglais, said that around 10:30 pm a large white truck drove into a crowd that had gathered near the beach to watch Bastille Day fireworks, apparently killing dozens of people. “A huge number of people started running, then there was a lot of gunfire,” he said. The police arrived on the scene and engaged in a shootout with the two occupants of the truck.

Another witness who owns a restaurant nearby, whom iTele did not identify, said that when the truck plowed into the crowd, it “crushed everyone in its path.” Then two men got out of the truck “and started shooting into the crowd, about 50 shots,” the witness said.

More from The Washington Post:

A truck rammed into a crowd celebrating Bastille Day in the French Riviera city of Nice on Thursday night, killing at least 30 people in an apparent attack, French news media reported.

The truck struck the crowd on the Promenade des Anglais, a seaside walk in center of the city in southern France, according to Nice Matin, a regional newspaper. About 100 people were reported injured.

A federal prosecutor in Nice put the death toll at about 60.

Local authorities were treating the incident as an attack and urging people to stay home, the French television channel BFM TV reported. It occurred as a large crowd was watching a fireworks display celebrating the French national holiday.

CNN quoted an American witness as saying he saw one person in the large white truck and heard gunfire, although it was not clear whether it came from the driver or was being fired at the vehicle.

The witness said the driver accelerated as he was mowing people down.

The Associated Press quoted Wassim Bouhlel, a Nice native, as saying that after slamming into the crowd, the truck driver emerged with a gun and started shooting.

“There was carnage on the road,” Bouhlel said. “Bodies everywhere.”

The Interior Ministry in Nice said about 100 people were injured and that the truck’s driver was shot by police.

France was rocked by a devastating terrorist attack in November, when heavily armed suicide bombers killed 130 people in several places around Paris. The Islamic State claimed responsibility for that attack, the worst bloodshed on French soil since World War II.

In March, Islamic State attackers killed 32 people in suicide bombings at the Brussels airport and a metro station.

News footage from the scene of the Nice incident showed the truck’s windshield riddled with bullet holes.

Analysts noted that the Islamic State has called on its followers to kill civilians in Western countries by any means possible, including vehicular attacks.

And BBC News:

A lorry has struck a crowd during Bastille Day celebrations in the southern French city of Nice, killing about 60 people, officials are quoted as saying by local media.

The incident took place on the famous Promenade des Anglais during a firework display.

One image on Twitter showed about a dozen people lying on the street.

The local prefecture has urged people in the area to remain indoors, calling the incident “an attack”.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said that “a lorry driver appears to have killed dozens of people”.

Sebastien Humbert, the prefect of the Alpes-Maritimes region, told France’s BFM TV that the lorry driver had been shot dead.

French media later quoted Nice prosecutors as saying that about 60 people were dead.

(…)

Some reports spoke of shots being exchanged between police and the occupants of the lorry but these have not been confirmed.

Social media video showed people running through the streets in panic following the incident.

A journalist with the Nice Matin newspaper reported from the scene that there was “a lot of blood and without doubt many injured”.

(…)

One eyewitness told BFM TV: “Everyone was calling run, run, run there’s an attack run, run, run. We heard some shots. We thought they were fireworks because it’s the 14th of July.

“There was great panic. We were running too because we didn’t want to stick around and we went into a hotel to get to safety. “

It’s obviously far too early to say for sure, but the initial reporting seems to clearly indicate that this was clearly some kind of deliberate attack. In addition to the fact that the truck drove for more than two kilometers as it struck people standing in the crowd, it’s now being reported that the driver of the truck was firing into the crowd before he began driving into it at an increasingly fast speed, seemingly deliberately aiming to kill or injure as many people as possible. Additionally, it is being reported that the truck was carrying firearms, explosives, and other dangerous items that could have killed and maimed many more people if they had exploded on its own. Taken together with all the other events in France specifically and Europe in general over the past year or more, the most logical conclusion is that this was some kind of deliberate attack, most likely one planned by a cell affiliated with ISIS or at least inspired by the terrorist organization.

More details will be forthcoming as the night goes on, and tomorrow morning, obviously, but it’s worth noting that this would not be the first time that jihadist terrorists used or attempted to use a vehicle as a weapon in a terrorist attack rather than simply a means to deliver a bomb. Similar attacks, albeit on a smaller scale, have occurred in places such as Canada and France in recent years. None of them have been on this scale, however, nor have they resulted in a death and injury toll as high as this apparent attack has. The question that this type of attack raises, though, is exactly what could be done to stop an attack like this given the fact that there doesn’t appear to have been any advance warning of an attack in the Nice area, or anywhere else in France for that matter. Additionally, the attack took place at a time when the emergency security protocols that President Francois Hollande put in place after the Paris attacks remain in effect throughout the country. Those protocols appear to have had little impact on the ability of authorities to stop an attack, which makes one wonder what could stop these ISIS-inspired terrorists at this point.

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About Doug Mataconis
Doug holds a B.A. in Political Science from Rutgers University and J.D. from George Mason University School of Law. He joined the staff of OTB in May, 2010 and also writes at Below The Beltway. Follow Doug on Twitter | Facebook

Comments

  1. Jenos Idanian says:

    I want to go on record as condemning any anti-Muslim backlash over this incident.

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  2. wr says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Just. Shut. Up.

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  3. Jenos Idanian says:

    @wr: I’m sorry, did I get ahead of the narrative on you and ruin the surprise ending? Should I have put a “spoiler alert” on my comment?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

  4. Jenos Idanian says:

    @wr: Let me step on your next comment, then: this is EXACTLY why we need stricter gun control laws in the US.

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  5. Pch101 says:

    According to this, at least 70 dead plus the alleged perp was shot to death.

    http://www.francetvinfo.fr/france/14-juillet/un-vehicule-fonce-dans-la-foule-a-nice-faisant-plusieurs-victimes-la-prefecture-evoque-un-attentat-suivez-notre-direct_1547145.html

    Promenade des Anglais is a street along the beach, with high end hotels and such. I would imagine that a lot of tourists were killed.

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  6. Anjin-san says:

    Jenos’ takeaway from tragedy – “hey, it’s an opportunity for me to be a dick”…

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  7. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Anjin-san: Look on the bright side: I gave you an opportunity to say something without having to actually say something. And we both know you LIVE for that.

    So, you willing to put some money that I’m wrong? You want to bet on that it was NOT a Muslim that carried out this attack?

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  8. Pch101 says:

    Jenos’ mother must be disappointed with the horror that resides in her basement.

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  9. Mister Bluster says:

    Anyone can be an asshole. It doesn’t take any talent.
    And it’s nothing to be proud of.

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  10. Anjin-san says:

    @Jenos Idanian:

    Actually, I live for jazz. And at the moment I’m enjoying dinner at one of the better jazz clubs in the world. You be sure to have a nice evening too. :)

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  11. Pch101 says:

    Now the toll is up to about 77-78 dead, 15 or so wounded. This could take awhile to sort out.

    Here’s a map of where it happened: https://twitter.com/agenceIDE/status/753739739333816320/photo/1

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  12. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Pch101: Jenos’ mother must be disappointed with the horror that resides in her basement.

    She died about 25 years ago, so, no. But, oddly enough, a friend once had a basement apartment that was the coolest (in a couple of senses of the word) apartment I’ve ever seen, and I always envied him that place.

    Which has exactly squat to do with the topic at hand, but since no one else wants to talk about that and instead get all pissy with me because I stole all their thunder, I figured I’d join in.

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  13. stonetools says:

    The question that this type of attack raises, though, is exactly what could be done to stop an attack like this given the fact that there doesn’t appear to have been any advance warning of an attack in the Nice area, or anywhere else in France for that matter. Additionally, the attack took place at a time when the emergency security protocols that President Francois Hollande put in place after the Paris attacks remain in effect throughout the country. Those protocols appear to have had little impact on the ability of authorities to stop an attack, which makes one wonder what could stop these ISIS-inspired terrorists at this point.

    The police could have stopped it, had not hey been doing the decent and humane thing and tried to shoo away the truck from the pedestrian area on the assumption that the driver was lost. In future, may be the rules of engagement might be to just start blasting away at any vehicle that disobeys an order to stop.I’m not sure I want to live in such a society.
    Breaking point…
    We may be getting to a stage where countries like France might be tempted to carpet bomb Raqqa after suffering a major ISIS attack. (Call it the Mike Reynolds approach). I’m not in favor of that. But I can understand why France might do something like that.

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  14. bill says:

    @Jenos Idanian: i blame the truck/licensing bureau. …….it’s just too damn easy to get a license to drive what’s essentially a mass killing machine.
    and then there were guns and explosives too? how’d that happen when they’re so highly regulated/banned?

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  15. Matt says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Honestly I expected a parody on assault vehicles needing banned. Or something about people not needing high capacity vehicles..etc

    So your first post surprised me.

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  16. Mu says:

    I doubt Hollande will do anything serious. But Madame Le Pen, President de la republique sixieme, might park a SSBN off Mecca and Medina, and that would get real interesting real fast.

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  17. Paul L. says:

    @bill:
    Enjoy this butthurt from a <a href="https://twitter.com/imillhiser/status/753770383908737024&gt“>progressive ThinkProgress" hack who hates when you mock his talking point.

    Ian Millhiser @imillhiser
    Yes! Let’s politicize the death of innocents by mocking people who want to prevent the death of innocents!

    Ilya Shapiro @ishapiro
    Time to ban trucks, or at least background checks before you can rent/buy them. https://twitter.com/time/status/753719493524852736

    I wonder if “mocking people who want to prevent the death of innocents!” also applies to pro-lifers and late term abortions?

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  18. Gustopher says:

    It’s good to know that the ISIS Glee Club is alive and well.

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  19. Lit3Bolt says:

    @Mu:

    Sure, because that would make fighting the Muslim death cult so much easier.

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  20. Guarneri says:

    “…there doesn’t appear to have been any advance warning of an attack in the Nice area, or anywhere else in France for that matter.”

    Actually, panel types (CIA, ATF etc) on MSNBC and FOX claim this was widely anticipated by the French authorities, and yes, on Bastille Day. Only the specifics may have not been known.

    Separately, there is some clown calling herself a professor (natch) on CNN already blaming the French……….for not assimilating Muslims well enough. Don Lemon not objecting too much. You can’t make this shixt up.

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  21. Gustopher says:

    The logistics of this attack are pretty interesting — were there spotters along the way to find a route, or did the driver just get lucky?

    I wonder if this will become the new preferred method of attack in France — it’s a lot easier to pull off than to get assault weapons, and requires a lot less coordination, and generates a significant body count.

    In America, we have so many guns that they are clearly the easiest option — so easy the mentally unbalanced can do it, and the mentally unbalanced are usually borderline competent.

    al Qaeda hobbled themselves with a flair for the dramatic — 9/11 was a spectacular success in that regard –but it limited them. They wanted to demonstrate that we were such an open and porous society that we couldn’t even protect against an elaborate plot. ISIS is content to rile up the crazies at the fringe of our own society (the attacks in the US) or just hit people with a truck.

    It’s a much harder enemy to fight.

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  22. Guarneri says:

    @stonetools:

    Major events will require the concrete barriers.

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  23. Gustopher says:

    @Guarneri: I don’t know what the professor said, and I would not take your characterization of her statements or anything else at face value, but…

    People who are treated like outsiders are going to be a lot easier to radicalize. That is, for instance, why we refer to a conflict with ISIS, rather than a conflict with Islam.

    There are things you can do to minimize risk — don’t demonize whole communities, don’t walk alone into a dark alley, don’t get drunk among a bunch of strange men. Is that blaming the victim? Maybe, but it is also common sense advice.

    No one deserves to get blown up, mugged or raped, and I would place the ultimate blame on the terrorist, mugger or rapist, but you have to be aware of your own actions that increase your risk.

    It would be a better, fairer world if we could blame a few billion people for the actions of a few, walk into any dark alley, and drink without fear that strangers would take advantage of our state to sexually assault us. But we don’t live in that better, fairer world.

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  24. Matt says:

    @Gustopher: Except that’s not even close to the truth. The highest body count for a single event here is half of what that person managed to do with one truck. The vast majority of spree shooters are well under that number (more like1/9-1/10th the number). It’s MUCH easier to take out a group of people with a truck than it is with a gun.

    What surprises me is that the truck itself wasn’t a bomb too. Could you imagine what an Oklahoma City style bomb would of done in this scenario?

    This very kind of attack is the stuff I warned about in the past when commenters here were hyper focused on guns as the sole cause of death. This is the kind of stuff we’re going to see much more of in the future regardless of the levels of gun control.

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  25. Pch101 says:

    @Gustopher:

    don’t demonize whole communities

    For a right-wingnut, a day that can’t be devoted to demonizing a minority group is like a day without sunshine.

    These are the types of people who get indignant when they are bitten by a dog that they have kicked. They feel entitled to inflict abuse AND to suffer no consequences from it. A lynch mob mentality.

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  26. Pch101 says:

    @Matt:

    You may as well argue that we shouldn’t bother to learn how to treat heart disease because people also die of cancer.

    The argument simply makes no sense at all.

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  27. Matt says:

    Anyone familiar with how France’s ambulance service is run?

    Last I knew in Europe they tended to try to stabilize/work on the patient while in transit taking it slow and deliberate. Is that still a thing over there and if it is does that change during an emergency like this?

    Last time I was in France every city I was in had an abundance of tight narrow streets. Was that a contributor to the death toll by slowing down emergency responders? Does the lack of experienced trauma ERs also contribute to the death toll?

    The main reason the death toll was so high with the Orlando shooting was that the shooter denied first aid to his victims. I’m wondering if there was a shortage of first aid responders in Nice which contributed to the higher number.

    @Pch101: Certain commentators such as MR make arguments that it’s only because of guns that we have mass killings. He and others have straight up said such. You’re once again far off the mark with your attempt at a response.

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  28. Matt says:

    @Pch101: I will up vote you for this as it is fairly accurate for a frighteningly large chunk of the population.

    Europe for some time has had problems with immigrants. They are excluded from society when possible including where they live. You marginalize and suppress a minority at your own risk.

    Which is why we historically don’t have nearly as much a problem here in the USA. We’re a melting pot of cultures and religions and on our best days everyone is welcomed to blend in. That blending in with the rest is key to slowing or stopping the radicals. The radicals feed on the outcasts and their anger.

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  29. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: You have no character or humanity at all, do you? [Click.]

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  30. Pch101 says:

    @Matt:

    Trucks can kill people, therefore guns are just oarsome is simply a ridiculous comment on its face. You may as well argue that cigarettes are healthy because there are also non-smokers who die of lung cancer.

    The fact that I have to even point this out is a reflection of the absurdity of your thought process. It’s the sort of illogical half-baked construct that I’d expect to hear from a child, not from a rational adult.

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  31. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @bill: You have no character or humanity either, I see. Keep it classy, you’ll persuade us of your wisdom yet. /s

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  32. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Pch101: Indeed!

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  33. bill says:

    @Matt: good point, but our “pot” was mainly christian- even those who don’t get along. jews play nice mostly, and why not- they know they’re religion is the basis for christianity.
    now that we’re importing muslims en masse, there’s a little more “tension” to say the least. even though islam is based on the torah and bible, they don’t seem real friendly to others if they don’t have to be.
    it’s not like the non-muslim immigrants from asia are having a huge issue with us either- and they outnumber hispanic immigrants these days.
    jimmy carter was right, we need to stop importing those who hate us until we can properly vet them.

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  34. NW-Steve says:

    @Matt:

    It’s MUCH easier to take out a group of people with a truck than it is with a gun.

    No quite as easy as you make out. The truck in the news photos looks to be something that would cost well in excess of $100,000. That means an organized attack.

    Any bent loner can acquire a gun that will be quite effective at killing people for $600 in the parking lot of your friendly nearby Target store.

    Which one enables the larger population of miscreants?

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  35. Jenos Idanian says:

    @NW-Steve: No quite as easy as you make out. The truck in the news photos looks to be something that would cost well in excess of $100,000. That means an organized attack.

    That’s the price of buying it new. Buying it used would be less. Stealing it would cost even less.

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  36. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Matt: Honestly I expected a parody on assault vehicles needing banned. Or something about people not needing high capacity vehicles..etc

    Honestly, that was my intent. That’s the standard playbook whenever there’s another TOTALLY UNEXPECTED AND UNIMAGINABLE incident of Sudden Jihadi Syndrome, the first response from a lot of Islamist apologists is to talk about how they fear a backlash against Muslims.

    And once again I find far more outrage directed against me for talking about bad things than about the bad things, or the people who did the bad things. Like when I refer to Bill Clinton’s affairs in disrespectful (yet accurate) terms.

    Kind of an odd circumstance — people get angrier of me talking about bad things than the bad things themselves. I wonder why that is…

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  37. Mikey says:

    @Jenos Idanian:

    people get angrier of me talking about bad things than the bad things themselves

    Jeez, dude. Get over yourself.

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  38. Michael Robinson says:

    I wonder when we can stop having the debate about Muslims (which is the debate they want us to have), and start having the debate about the unfettered and global Wahhabi promotion of absolutist ideological indoctrination.

    E.g. Why is it unfettered? Why is it global?

    Seems to me that if leaders of the Western world have concluded that the current level of Wahhabi-inspired terrorism is an acceptable price to pay for cheap oil, they should just be up front with us about that, and stop using it as an excuse to further divide and oppress the population at large.

    I just hope the driver didn’t own an iPhone.

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  39. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Mikey: Jeez, dude. Get over yourself.

    I find it amusing, and a little puzzling. It’s more a case of “others need to get over me.”

    It’s like they’re mad that I don’t let them pretend these things never happened. I mess up their little amnesia conspiracy or something.

    Ever read “Watership Down?” Remember Cowslip’s warren, and the single greatest sin one could commit there? And the penalty for it?

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  40. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Michael Robinson: Seems to me that if leaders of the Western world have concluded that the current level of Wahhabi-inspired terrorism is an acceptable price to pay for cheap oil, they should just be up front with us about that, and stop using it as an excuse to further divide and oppress the population at large.

    More than enough oil has been discovered in mon-Mideast regions (especially the US) that we could, if we wanted to, break the OPEC cartel. Saudi Arabia has, for decades, used its oil to export its troublemakers — and troubles, and buy off its people. But that can’t continue forever, and it’s already showing signs of collapse.

    And should it come to pass that the Muslim world loses the power of oil, what’s to keep the West from treating the whole Muslim-on-Muslim slaughters like they treat the slaughters in sub-Saharan Africa? Once they lose the power to irritate and inconvenience us, what are the odds that we’ll keep actively trying to keep them from slaughtering each other?

    They’ll still have Israel to threaten to get our attention, but that’ll be about it. The key to Iran’s power is its ability to threaten the Straits of Hormuz — and if we don’t need the oil flowing out of that strait, why would we care if they shut it down? The Suez Canal? The Egyptians tried to shut it down, and the world said “no” with massive military force.

    The clock is ticking down on the Muslim use of the oil card, and they have no Plan B ready. They will soon face the greatest existential threat to their existence — Western apathy.

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  41. Michael Robinson says:

    @Jenos Idanian: To reiterate, because it seems you skimmed past it the first time: “when can we stop having the debate about Muslims (which is the debate they want us to have), and start having the debate about the unfettered and global Wahhabi promotion of absolutist ideological indoctrination.”

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  42. Guarneri says:

    @Gustopher:

    You can do what you like, including actually getting a CNN transcript so you know what you are talking about for once in your life.

    Your exculpatory soliloquy is garbage. This blame the host stuff is just a way to excuse the perpetrators and politicians who think making nice will get the job done. All it does is get more killed. “Immigrants” have to want to assimilate. Going to be parasites on other countries is not a right.

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  43. Guarneri says:

    @Jenos Idanian:

    Answer: Defend their heroes at all costs, of course.

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  44. Michael Robinson says:

    Or, to put it another way, if you are unconcerned with how the Western world should address the legacy of the deal struck between ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    (and should expect to be treated as part of the problem)

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  45. Guarneri says:

    You know, Reynolds got himself in hot water with you jag offs by advocating overwealming response. I, too, would object to vaporizing the Muslim world, but he had the thrust right: playing Harvey Milqetoast like Obama and the European pols is getting you guys just what would be expected. No, people, using these events to grind on your anti-gun agenda and handwringing about offending little Mohammed is not an effective defense strategy. It’s a political one.

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  46. Pch101 says:

    @Guarneri:

    Perhaps we could install a Wheel of Misfortune with the names of Arab countries, have Vanna White give the wheel a spin, and bomb the “winner” just because.

    Would that be enough to make you feel better, or should we also bring you some warm milk?

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  47. Mikey says:

    @Guarneri:

    “Immigrants” have to want to assimilate.

    And their hosts have to want to allow it.

    The Paris attackers were all French or Belgians. Last night’s Nice truck driver was French.

    The common thread is descendants of immigrants who have been excluded–not allowed to assimilate–by the larger French society.

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  48. Dave Schuler says:

    While I agree with stonetools above that eventually the various countries of Europe will reach their breaking points, I doubt that will impel them to step up their activities against DAESH. European history suggests that France, for example, will react by expelling populations that aren’t françaises de souche. It’s happened multiple times in the past.

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  49. Jack says:

    Posted elsewhere, but I liked it so I am posting it here:

    “See, the Nazis made a big mistake. They should have declared Hitler was a God. Then we couldn’t oppose him, because, ya know, freedom of religion. Then they could have set up temples all throughout the USA and recruited at a will. And why give your invading army tanks? That’s expensive. Just give them rags and call them refugees. And then demand that the country they invade pay them welfare. Saves a lot on military pay. And of course they’ll need a place to live, just a little ‘Lebensraum’.

    Sure their commandos blow things up once in a while, and scream “Heil Hitler” when they do so, but those are not the real Nazis. Ya know, 99% of Nazis never threw a Jew into an oven. That was just the SS or the IS-IS or something. They weren’t real Nazis. They just hijack booted the religion. Since Hilter is their God, Saying Heil Hitler is just like saying “Thank God”. It’s nothing. We may never know the motive of these lone wolves.” – Jeffrey Varasano

    Yes, what our politicians and do-gooders are saying is just that stupid.

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  50. Jack says:

    Just a friendly reminder…

    “Let’s be clear: Islam is not our adversary, Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.” – Hillary Clinton

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  51. C. Clavin says:

    @Jack:

    Just a friendly reminder…

    Wow…you finally posted a comment that is correct.
    Congratulations.
    Wait…you were being sarcastic? So you’re actually still f’ed up? OK…makes sense.

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  52. Jack says:

    @C. Clavin: Muslims are as peaceful and tolerant as, well, liberals. You are living proof, cupcake.

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  53. Moderate Mom says:

    @NW-Steve: The truck was rented a week ago.

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  54. Tony W says:

    @Matt:

    This very kind of attack is the stuff I warned about in the past when commenters here were hyper focused on guns as the sole cause of death.

    These strawmen are silly. Of course guns are not the sole cause of death, and of course any gathering of people is a vulnerable situation across a variety of threats.

    That does not mean we fail to take sensible steps to thwart guns as a mechanism to inflict death. It simply means that gun control is not sufficient to solve all the worlds’ problems – which nobody said it was.

    FFS, can we at least let the dead bodies cool down before we get into this crap?

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  55. An Interested Party says:

    Yes, what our politicians and do-gooders are saying is just that stupid.

    Oh yeah, we should go to war with over a billion people because of the actions and beliefs of a small minority…that’ll work out so well…and it will give that fanatical minority exactly what they want…

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  56. Pch101 says:

    French authorities should take a stand against terrorism by bombing this guy’s house.

    Fortunately for them, that should be quite convenient, as he lived just a couple of miles away.

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  57. barbintheboonies says:

    I was just saying to my husband last week while crossing the I-5 bridge as a semi was driving up our ass, this is going to be the next weapon used in a Terror attack. I don’t know how this guy got a license to drive this truck since he was a petty criminal. My husband is a truck driver and he has to have a squeaky clean record. I live in Wa. state and I am always amazed just how many middle eastern men who drive semis from Canada. I know you all will think I am raciest but I am not, I’m just observant. I also observed a lot of them driving erratic, or angry. It can not be a coincidence that many of Canada’s drivers are Middle Eastern men. I don’t expect this to stop but I will make a prediction. we will see more of this by trucks.

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  58. Jack says:

    @An Interested Party:

    because of the actions and beliefs of a small minority

    Good thing we didn’t use this excuse during WWII, you know, it was just a small minority of the Japanese that bombed Pearl Harbor.

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  59. Jack says:

    @An Interested Party:

    Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 – a date which will live in infamy – the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

    However, because this was just a small minority of the Japanese people that attacked us, we will not go to war. These maniacs, simply adherents to Hirohito, do not represent the entire Japanese population or culture. I don’t even know why I’m calling them Japanese. They are simply the JV team, so to speak. Let’s be clear: Japan is not our adversary, the Japanese people are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with this attack.

    Yeah, that would have gone over very well.

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  60. An Interested Party says:

    Good thing we didn’t use this excuse during WWII, you know, it was just a small minority of the Japanese that bombed Pearl Harbor.

    Actually, that same kind of thinking led to the internment of Japanese-Americans…do you think that was a good thing? Meanwhile, there is a distinct difference between a country and various terrorist groups…perhaps you don’t know that…

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  61. Jack says:

    @An Interested Party: Face it. Adherence to Islam is incompatible with Western culture. Westerners do not go to Muslim countries and insist they drink alcohol, insist they wear bikinis, and insist they eat pork. Yet Muslims come to our country and insist we make allowances for their “religious beliefs” that restrict our actions.

    Freedom is not part of the Islamic culture.

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  62. An Interested Party says:

    Adherence to Islam is incompatible with Western culture.

    Oh really? Than how do Muslim-Americans function in this country? Are they all terrorists waiting to strike because their religion is supposedly incompatible with our culture?

    Yet Muslims come to our country and insist we make allowances for their “religious beliefs” that restrict our actions.

    What are these restrictions? By the way, while you’re so busy going on and on about the 2nd Amendment, there is still that pesky 1st Amendment which says something about religious freedom…

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  63. Moosebreath says:

    @Jack:

    “Yet Muslims come to our country and insist we make allowances for their “religious beliefs” that restrict our actions.”

    Which restrictions on your actions have you made based on Muslim religious beliefs? Have you worn a hijab? Abstained from pork? I can tell you are still drinking alcohol from your post.

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  64. C. Clavin says:

    Bush and Co. had an idea about fighting terrorism by democratizing the Middle East…it was stupid and unfeasible…but it was an idea.
    Today Republicans have no idea what to do but make pantywaists like Jack afraid and hateful.
    They really have nothing that even rises to the level of stupidity of the Bush cabal. Nothing.
    Trump was on TV and wants a war. Against who? Against a French-Tunisian guy in Nice?
    They want to monitor Mosques and keep people out based on their religion…from a country founded on free religion. So very American of them.
    Fear and hate are dangerous things. If this bunch gains the White House it will be the end of America as we know it.

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  65. gVOR08 says:

    @Jenos Idanian: @bill: @Guarneri: @Jack:
    ISIS regards anyone who is Muslim but not ISIS as in the “grey zone”. The goal of these attacks is to shrink the grey zone, make it more and more difficult to for Muslims to assimilate into Europe and America. ISIS wants to trigger a repressive response that will drive Muslims out of western society into radicalization. What do you guys want?

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  66. Pch101 says:

    The fact that Jack doesn’t understand the difference between being attacked by a foreign nation in an act of war and being attacked by a dude with a truck who has no connection to a foreign government tells me everything that I need to know about the wretched state of modern conservatism.

    The pride that he takes in that ignorance only adds to its comedic value.

    The American right is now a clique for high school dropouts with poor research skills and bad attitudes, not a legitimate political philosophy. Bomb it, discriminate against it, hate it is its mantra.

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  67. Jack says:

    @An Interested Party: @Moosebreath:

    In Islam individuals have no rights or dignity, Islam identifies people and individuals by their religion: Non-Muslim and Muslim.

    From the Muslim point of view, any culture that threatens the truly devout Muslim’s religious commitment is considered the “enemy”. Therefore, Western culture is the obvious enemy of Islam and America is the leader of all the Western countries.

    In the US alone, people have been turned away from Taxis because they were drunk, carrying alcohol, gay, or had their service dog with them. Women are being shamed for what they wear. Islam is being introduced in public schools where decades ago people insisted on removing Christianity because of the separation of church and state.

    In Europe it has become even worse.

    Open your eyes and admit it.

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  68. C. Clavin says:

    The stupidity of pantywaists pretending to be experts is awe-inspiring.

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  69. Andre Kenji says:

    France has the problem of having large immigrant population that suffers discrimination and that lives under horrible conditions. I like to compare the French Banlieues with the Brazilian Favelas, but sometimes I think that´s unfair. To the Brazilian favelas.

    That´s no excuse for these POS perpetrating mass murders, on the other hand, as we living in this side of the Atlantic knows, having marginalized populations of people of color living in completely marginalized communities is not a recipe for public safety. US Conservatives like to remember us that crime rates among White are pretty low, and I see a very similar dynamic in Europe.

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  70. Jenos Idanian says:

    Obama’s former Defense Intel chief, General Michael Ledeen (Ret.), had this observation:

    “Muslim civilization is a failure. There were more books translated into Spanish in the last year than into Arabic in the last thousand years. You’re dealing with a failed culture.”

    The clash between Western culture and the forces of fundamentalist Islam is not a clash of civilizations. It’s a clash for civilization.

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  71. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @bill: That’s just stupid even for you.

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  72. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: It’s because you are faceless cypher with a fake name who is devoid of humanity–as I explained in my first response to your opening salvo. You are a waste of the communal air. If in your real life you were as loathsome as you are on line, you would already be the victim of a homicide that the police allowed to go cold. I’ve never understood why you decided on this persona, but I do have to admit that it is common on the interwebs.

    I guess some people have deep seated anger issues.

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  73. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Tony W: Never have before; why would we this time?

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  74. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jack: Should I note that the Japanese here cited were employees of the Japanese government that had just declared war on the US a few months back, or did you already know that your comment was fatuous and stupid as you pressed “post?”

    I’ll go with B.

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  75. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: So, your argument isn’t that I’m wrong, but I’m mean?

    (click)

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  76. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: Should I note that the Japanese here cited were employees of the Japanese government that had just declared war on the US a few months back

    I should note that said declaration of war occcurred right AFTER the attack, not “a few months back.”

    I SHOULD note it, but (click).

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  77. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jack:

    In the US alone, people have been turned away from Taxis because they were drunk, carrying alcohol, gay, or had their service dog with them.

    This from the guy who doesn’t want bakeries to have to bake cakes for gay weddings. Hmmm… what happened to protection of religious freedom?

    Women are being shamed for what they wear.

    Well, at least he’s got this one right. Muslim women shouldn’t be criticized for wearing the hijab.

    Oh? That isn’t what you meant?

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  78. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: I stand corrected. Wikipedia confirms that Japan declared war in it’s newspapers dated December 8, 1941. My statement should have said that they declared war just before the attack on Pearl Harbor. (Remember, 6 pm December 8th in Japan is about 3 or 4 am December 7th in Hawaii. The miracles of air travel used to allow me to leave Incheon at 12:30 on Tuesday and arrive in Seattle at 10 am the same day.)

    I was operating from a memory I recall from my, obviously defective, history classes and I apologize. Still in all, the lapse does not detract from the lunacy of Jack’s original comment and I assume that you were simply “rubbing my nose” in my own ignorance–in this case, laziness to look up the details–in that you didn’t defend Jack’s honor or the “logic” of his argument.

    In any event, I’m grateful that I was able to offer a ray of sunshine into your otherwise futile and inconsequential life and am encouraged by the fact that I have finally risen in your esteem to the point that I, like Mr. Claven, are worthy of being shunned by you with a “click.” THAT is truly a badge of honor–at least for the internet. (Not even Reynolds gets clicked.)

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  79. Pch101 says:

    Why do dry counties hate my freedom?

    As someone whose father has had a service dog (specifically, a seeing eye dog), I can assure you that this was not exactly a cakewalk until recently. He needed to carry a 50-state legal guide with him so that he could show it to the various restaurant operators and shop keepers who wanted the dog to stay outside.

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  80. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: “mean” =/= “devoid of humanity”

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  81. An Interested Party says:

    Open your eyes and admit it.

    When you’re finished pissing your pants and have lost at least some of that fear, get back to us and maybe we can have a reasonable conversation…no wonder you have such a gun fetish…

    Muslim civilization is a failure. There were more books translated into Spanish in the last year than into Arabic in the last thousand years. You’re dealing with a failed culture.

    There are over a billion Muslims all over the world…it is foolish to think that all Muslims are in the Middle East and speak Arabic…there are Muslims in India and Indonesia, among many other places, who don’t participate in the mass terror and violence that is taking place in the Middle East…

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  82. gVOR08 says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: Just historical trivia, but perhaps of some interest. Japan intended to declare war just before the Pearl Harbor attack. But they planned it badly and the embassy in DC was unable to decode, type, and deliver the declaration to the Sec’y of State until after the the Secretary had been notified the attack was in progress. Hence the sneak attack, which increased outrage in the US.

    Another bit of trivia. When people were defending W’s invasion of Iraq you’d frequently hear – OK, Iraq may not have attacked us, but what would we have thought if after Pearl Harbor FDR hadn’t also declared war on Germany. These people were unaware that the U.S. did not declare war on Germany on Dec 8. FDR did not think public opinion would support a declaration against a country that had not attacked us. A few days later Hitler made a massive mistake and declared war on us. His treaty with Japan did not require this, as Japan had been the aggressor.

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  83. C. Clavin says:

    All these Republican sissys are ready to go to war over this…and its looking like this guy was in a divorce and commited suicide by cop.
    Foreign policy geniuses…..

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  84. Guarneri says:

    @gVOR08:

    To provide them fresh baked cookies and goats milk daily so they will like us and reject those meanies of ISIS. We all know those sensitive Muslims just want to cure cancer and staff soup kitchens, but are just one cross look away from going into a rage of raping girls, throwing homosexuals off buildings and wanting to slice the heads off westerners, the poor dears.

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  85. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: How remarkable. You have harsher words for me because I describe what these Muslim fundamentalists do, than you do for those Muslim fundamentalists who do these things. Much like how I was thoroughly denounced and reviled for using uncouth terms to describe Bill Clinton’s dalliances with Monica Lewinsky.

    Why do you insist on shooting the messenger for reporting accurately (if indelicately) on the deeds of others?

    And as far as the (click) goes, you’ve been (mis)using it for a couple of months now. It’s supposed to only be used on someone who addresses you directly. You’ve been using it on my comments since at least May; now you actually can use it properly, and you’re acting as if this is something new?

    But back to the subject at hand: I have merely described what has happened, and you are more upset about hearing it from me than from it actually happening. Sounds like you have some serious issues…

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  86. Jenos Idanian says:

    @An Interested Party: So, what great contributions have the Muslim world brought us in, say, the last couple of centuries? Just to have a simple starting point, since 1776?

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  87. Just 'nutha ig'rant cracker says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Stay on topic. I am saying you are inhuman. I didn’t criticize what you said about Muslims at all in this thread. My message is that you have no character or humanity. I have not seen any evidence so far challenging that position. I stand by it.

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  88. An Interested Party says:

    So, what great contributions have the Muslim world brought us in, say, the last couple of centuries?

    It’s not about any great contributions of the Muslim world…rather, it is a false argument to say that Muslims all over the world are involved in the violence and terror that is taking place in the Middle East…nice try, though…

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  89. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Just ‘nutha ig’rant cracker: Stay on topic. I am saying you are inhuman. I didn’t criticize what you said about Muslims at all in this thread. My message is that you have no character or humanity. I have not seen any evidence so far challenging that position. I stand by it.

    So, you have determined the topic is not the subject posted by our hosts, but my character? While flattering, I don’t recall you getting promoted to Topic Setter.

    I also call into question your character, as someone who is more upset over being confronted with reality than with those who have made such monstrosities our reality. I claim a kinship with The Notorious RBG, whose impolitic remarks about the GOP nominee to be were defended as “truth.” However, unlike the Notorious RBG, I am not saddled with any office where I must put forth at least the pretense of objectivity.

    What kind of coward are you that you would find such courage only to shoot the messenger, instead of the creator of the message?

    I’ve already answered that, haven’t I?

    I dub thee “Cowslip II.” And as the original would be long dead if he were not a fictional character, I’ll drop the “II.”

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  90. Jenos Idanian says:

    @An Interested Party: The Middle East is the center of the Muslim world. It’s where it started, it’s where it holds the most sway, and it’s the home of the holiest sites, which all good Muslims are supposed to visit at least once in their life.

    It is interesting, though, that the Muslims most often brought up as counter-examples to the Muslim fundamentalists are those who are the most physically removed from the Middle East.

    That thought hadn’t occurred to me until now. I’ll have to mull that one over.

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  91. Gustopher says:

    @C. Clavin: Most interpretations of Islam forbid suicide. They’re pretty strict on that point, actually. Suicide bombers don’t get 72 virgins. People who kill dozens in a suicide mission aren’t martyrs.

    It’s one of the hallmarks of the Wahhabist inspired strains that they have reinterpreted other passages to justify this.

    So, when a Moslim finds a way to off himself while taking a whole bunch of other people with him, it’s a pretty good sign that he is more than casually interested in terrorist organizations. He might not be a member, but he is drawing inspiration from them.

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  92. Mikey says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Also, in case you didn’t know: 80% of the world’s Muslims live outside the Middle East.

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  93. michael reynolds says:

    This is just a test note. OTB didn’t like my last German location in Erfurt (neat medieval city) so I’m seeing if it likes my Dortmund location.

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  94. Mikey says:

    @michael reynolds:

    Erfurt (neat medieval city)

    I’ve always wanted to visit Erfurt. Couldn’t go when I lived there because Germany was still divided for most of my time there and Erfurt was in the GDR.

    It’s not terribly far from where my wife grew up in Bavaria, beautiful hilly countryside there.

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  95. Jenos Idanian says:

    @michael reynolds: FYI, I made that donation to my local children’s hospital. It was slightly more than an hour’s pay from Job 1 before taxes, and slightly more than 1 hour’s pay from Job 2 after taxes.

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  96. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Mikey: Also, in case you didn’t know: 80% of the world’s Muslims live outside the Middle East.

    So? Does that change what I said?

    Depending on how you define “Jewish,” only about 30-40% of the world’s Jews live in Israel. Hell, it can be argued that there are more Jews in the US than in Israel. Vatican City holds the tiniest fraction of the world’s Catholics.

    Does that make Israel and the Vatican irrelevant to Jews and Catholics respectively?

    FYI, the FBI has said it has found zero evidence that the Miami terrorist was a self-hating gay, so there goes that theory. I realize around here that that had quickly become gospel, but apparently it’s a total fabrication.

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  97. Gustopher says:

    @Jenos Idanian: absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

    The gay hookup apps that we have had a lot of people reporting seeing him on don’t keep records — so we can either discount these peoples claims or accept them.

    The report also states that there is no evidence that he targeted the nightclub because it was gay. He may not have left a written record, but it’s clear he sought it out since gay nightclubs are generally outnumbered by straight. Whether he left evidence behind or not, it is implausible to suggest he didn’t target it because it was a gay nightclub.

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  98. Mikey says:

    @Jenos Idanian: Sorry, I thought in the context of your recent realization of differences between Muslims in the Middle East and Muslims elsewhere, it was relevant.

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  99. wr says:

    @Jenos Idanian: “t was slightly more than an hour’s pay from Job 1 before taxes, and slightly more than 1 hour’s pay from Job 2 after taxes.”

    I’m sure that eight dollars will truly help the poor children.

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  100. Gustopher says:

    @Guarneri: given your tendency to misrepresent, I see no need to find a transcript and see in what way you have misrepresented this random person.

    Simply, you’re not a credible source of information. You’re also pretty transparent in your lack of credibility.

    Obama is the divider in chief, and is on an eight year apology tour. This professor said that France is entirely to blame for terrorism.

    Sure. Got it.

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  101. Jenos Idanian says:

    @Mikey: There’s an idea there, I just haven’t fleshed it out. Something about there being two loci of fundamentalist Islam — the Middle East and Pakistan/Afghanistan — and the proximity of Muslims to one of those loci to radicalism. And not just physical/geographic proximity, but spiritual/emotional proximity.

    Or, maybe, there’s something about Indonesia that mellows Islam. The native culture it was overlaid upon, their geographic isolation (not just distance, but water).

    Indonesia and its high population are always the go-to citation for non-fundamentalist Muslims. But their raw numbers aren’t really that important in the overall picture of Islam, as they are a very large population that is, relatively speaking, geographically isolated from the rest of the Muslim world. And as Islam is a relatively young religion (especially there, as it seems it didn’t arrive in Indonesia until about the 13th century, and didn’t become dominant until the 16th century), so there was a very strong culture that Islam had to overlay.

    I’m just free-associating here, floating ideas to see what might make sense. I’m feeling a theory there, but I can’t quite grasp it at this point. Maybe I’ll sleep on it…

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  102. anjin-san says:

    @wr:

    Surely you know that Jenos had a brilliant career before Obamacare ruined everything…

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  103. Jenos Idanian says:

    @wr: @anjin-san: For all your talk about how pathetic my personal life might be, you’ve discovered something even more pathetic: the two of you having nothing better to do than gossip about me.

    If you’re looking to compete with Mr. reynolds for creating fiction, though, you’ve got a hell of a long ways to go.

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